Hi guys! I need your help!
I recently enrolled into uni to study digital art and design and I was faced with this big fat stigma against manga-style arts. I've decided to write an article about it for my course's blog and I WANT YOUR OPINIONS.
Because me, I just don't get why is it that Western cartoon style is acceptable and anime/manga style isn't. And why art tutors say things like "Oh, we'll have to beat it [anime] out of you, then" to students who admit they like anime/manga.
Why black splatters on white paper have a profound meaning while a complex illustration is dismissed as a piece of crap, non-art, just because it is drawn in manga style?
What the heck happened to the freedom of expression, anyway?
I knew most art schools are not in love with anime/manga style, but I just honestly wasn't expecting such open, well, hostility, for the lack of a better word. And not just amongst the staff, but a big part of the student body as well. It just makes me sad. But that's beside the point.
The most common misconception seems to be that people who draw in anime/manga style are shit artists otherwise, that drawing in anime/manga style is as indication of lack of skill.
Thus the question: Do you think drawing in manga style requires less effort than drawing in other styles?
Also, if you have any experiences of people dissing anime/manga as a form of art in general, please do share. If you remember even approximately what somebody said about it, please quote.
Thank you for your help. : )
- Mood: Frustrated
- Listening to: rain
- Reading: Html4 for Dummies
- Eating: chocolate
This is why I don't take art schools seriously. I'd rather take business and design if I ever wanted to pursue an art career. I am a western cartoon artist with decent skills but I have a very low audience count compared to those of anime artists around here, it seems. At least here on deviantart, it seems anime is a very popular and well-liked style. Original cartoon on the other hand, not so much. Unless we're talkin about MLP fanarts and what have you.
And the only reason why you find anime more acceptable here is because it's more liked on this site?
I could point you in the direction of a whole bunch of sites, porn included, that really likes anime.
Does that make anime more credible in artistic strides? No.
There's a reason why anime is still consider a niche: It's not a generally accepted art style outside Japan.
If you believe that popularity is a legitimate criticism in favor of art, Disney blows all that shit out of the water.
And in that case, you really should actually take a few classes at your local community college to get an appreciation for it.
Spongebob compared to Naruto or Madoka Magica. Theres a big differnce!
Not to mention anime is cheaply done that most art professors see them as nothing more than pictures with camera shifting in the way one moves one's eyes across a comic book's panels. It could look like animation if you squint a little in a dark room.
And most of these so called "Anime is art" Plebeians are at the age where they think they know everything when art is SO MUCH BIGGER than they comprehend. Doesn't help that "fans" have severe tunnel vision that they couldn't recognize superior works if it slapped them in the face shouting "Baka"! (Ugh I feel dirty leaving that in there).
Also it's fucking childish to say anime has better stories/details or some shit that has nothing to do with animation. Guess what? There are much better stories and art that anime have no capability of reaching in it's current state. THEY'RE CALLED BOOKS AND ART MUSEUMS!
Otherwise the animation of most anime is like watching dead eye puppets shutter around with the background of the Mona Lisa while someone from an asylum tries to tell you a story while writhing on the floor.
Grow up. There's more to the world than the limitations you put on yourself and you should be ashamed for it.
(And hey, my art looks like total shit, but at least I know it take more effort to draw my art than some of those otakus. Also Hayao Miyazaki hates you).
I mean I can think of more credible arguments.
Everyone starts somewhere of course. I have a long way to go if I continue to work on it.
That doesn't mean examples don't already exist or knowledge of such things.
You're just looking for excuses to not actually admit you are still wrong.
Come back when you got a stronger argument than "you're not a rocket scientist" and I'll consider your stance valid.
There are reasons why much of the anime drawn is pure shit. No adherence to realism, anatomy, perspective, etc.
It's an art form made to sell for mass consumption, not for artistic strides.
What exceptions you can find only strengthen my argument because those examples actually fall back on art foundation principles.
And if you don't think anime isn't a cheap art form, anime itself is based on old style MGM/Disney concepts from the 20s.
Which the former actually perfected over the decades while the latter didn't do shit with it.
Hell Japan's Edo style works are FAR superior in artistic endeavors, especially since most was made with wood blocks. Wrap your head around that.
If anime is art, then it is the lowest art style available. Only below 5 year old scribbles.
About that Japan's Edo style is superior...NO SHIT SHERLOCK LMAO.
I also went to Japan once and people were like that. Prissy, racist people who think that just because of our nationality we can't draw "their" art, that we're doing it "wrong".
I once had a girl, one who had a more cartoon-ish style, tell me that her art style is more unique than mine because I drew anime, and that it wasn't art. She claimed I just copied and spent no time on developing a style, when I could probably find her "style" used by other, more advanced artists on Google. I got a real kick out of that one. Why do people think that, just because a general style is popular, that everything within it is unoriginal and not art?
I am currently going to an art high school, and only a small few (including me) have a style categorized as manga. Luckily, I've only been told that I had to branch from anime once by my teacher, but that doesn't excuse the subtle-yet-obvious dislike of the style by all of my teachers. I understand that, as artists, we have to venture into the unknown like hobbits and try out new things, but that doesn't mean shaping us like clay into something general. Everything is overused. That's no reason to hate manga. Sure, make one experiment, but don't erase their style.
Wow, we've ventured far off the path, haven't we? Well, back to the question: is manga easier? NO. It took me years to get where I am, and I get so mad when people compare me to the doodle done by the girl two desks over who traces an image on her computer screen onto notebook paper. It's just as hard as drawing realistically, and maybe harder than the cartoon styles we see on television today. And anyway, easy or not, art is a way of expressing oneself, and should not be judged simply by how that artists portrays their thoughts and ideas.
I'm going to college and being taught by Disney animators and Video Game Artists.
They don't like anime/cartoon either, because it mainly focuses on a character, and from what they've said it seems they rather have people practice drawing an entire scene before they delve into the characters. As they said your character will look boring and childish without a decent set up.
They also said they don't like kids starting with drawing anime/cartoon characters and not understanding how perspective works and body posture works. When starting college they had us completely stop drawing any anime/cartoon to break any bad habits we might've gotten while drawing on our own.
Unfortunately when art is ranked in difficulty. Drawing realistic art is the easiest and the first thing colleges will have you turn in. Next easiest is pop art or "anime/cartoon". The hardest of art is painting and the last one is animation. Painting is difficult because you only have four colors to work with and you can't fix a screw up. Animation is difficult because of the sheer amount of art needed to complete it.
Anime/cartoon art isn't bad, but it's considered gross art by artists, because of how easy it is to draw. I'm not saying that from my experience. I spent a long time drawing anime as the next guy, but if you ever meet a Disney animator or any big time animator, they can churn out a beautiful anime/cartoon drawings in seconds. They don't need references or anything and they say it as it is for them and the industry. Keep in mind you have to compete with people like that. People who can draw different manga and anime styles in seconds, while you struggle over years to get it done.
As for style, it is very hard to see style in cartoons/anime. People who live in the America's typically can't see the difference in anime styles. They more easily recognize cartoon styles. People in Japan notice the differences in anime styles more than they do in cartoon styles. Depending on where you live, an art teacher may direct you in a path where money is to be made. If you live in the America's or Europe they'll recommend you draw cartoon and if you live in Japan they'll recommend anime. Painting and drawing from life is highly recommended by art teachers, because you can sell a painting or drawing anywhere, and typically at a high price since the age range looking to buy paintings is older and they have money to spend. You can charge 300$ for a dumb drawing of a tree and someone will eventually buy it. Anime/Cartoon on the other hand sells for 20$ a piece or less. Not that anime/cartoon isn't an art form, but it's because the main audience for that art is children and children don't have much money to spend.
There is a science behind it too. Paintings last a long time, while anime/cartoon's while eventually fade into obscurity.
A good tip is to not limit yourself just to anime and manga. Remember to branch out. Practice doing drawings and paintings too. Try doing cartoon art. The more art experience you have the better an artist you'll become.
Another good tip is if someone can't see your art style or know what your drawing from the get go, something is wrong and needs to be fixed. You want your art to stand out and you want to convey what you are thinking in your art. One of my professors said it very nicely, which is art is a language and you have to speak it correctly and you want your voice to be heard. Art style is like your voice and the art itself is the language. If someone can't hear your voice, you want to make it louder. Make your art stick out of the crowd more. It'll pay off.
I've been in a similar situation as yours. Where someone looked at my cartoon art and said... It has no style, it looks like a typical cartoon. It hurts, but I decided to work on my style more and people now compliment on how different my art looks and I can actually make new styles on a whim from the amount of practice I've done. It's a good skill to have.
Drawing from reality really helps too with improving style. You start from what you see and then remove details and exaggerate things you want exaggerated.
Ah, I'm rambling. I just thought I would let you know. I don't think the art teachers are out to spite you or anything.
It's just stupid that people don't respect animation as a valid art form. As a fan of anime, manga, comics, and art in general, I am disgusted that they would do that.
But to the other people who think anime/manga is a lack of skill and/or think it requires less effort then they haven't seen other artists then. I've seen SOOO many artists who done beautiful work that requires A LOT of effort and lots of skill! They forget it's not all about picking up a pencil and applying that to a piece of paper. No. Artists in general put in their time and effort to get to where they are at. And there are still other artists who are trying to find their own style!
And it's so cool to see an artist's style! Because every style is different even though it's under this "anime/manga" umbrella. It's kinda like drawing a still life of an apple on a desk. You can tell other people's styles even though it's a freakin' still life of a freakin' apple lol.
(Sorry, wanted to put my tiny 2 cents in here haha)
I should say that since anime is an art style to me (and there are many styles that exist within it), I think that they want people to try something else, instead of something they've become too familiar with.
It might be a good idea to venture into other forms, but damn you to hell if you disagree with this: If that's the type of artist they want to be, SO BE IT.
I heard someone behind my back saying Big eyes people are not a style of art..
SAY THAT TO JAPAN DAMNIT!
the problem with anime when it comes to art classes is not that it is "easy" or ugly [it's not, not necessarily], the problem is that students who are into manga often started off with that [meaning they have no foundation and are "copying" someone else's style] and wanna do JUST that and don't understand how immensely important it is to understand anatomy properly BEFORE you distort it to play with different styles such as manga [or disney, or adventure time, what have you, but manga is a lot more popular so it gets the most attention].
also the difference between manga and western comics is that the later is a lot more realistic.
It's because they want you to develop your own style.
Anime is overused and sure art should be a form of freedom but you also have to be unique.
This is a situation that happens to me all the time:
I meet a new person
Person: I love your drawings! I actually draw too and I love to draw
Me: oh really cool! Can you show me some of your drawings?
Person (opens up her folder/sketchbook of a bunch of Anime Drawings)
Every time I meet someone who says they know how to draw and they do it well, I see lots of anime in their sketchbooks. Sure it's well drawn but does it hurt to be creative with your own style?
There are some people who just draw anime/manga. That's all they do. Ask them to draw something else, most of them won't be able to. If you want to do comic art, you're going to have to learn how to draw in other styles too. That's why in college you get to take special classes from animation,photography, and fashion design to graphic design, illustration and fine art.
There's an art high school in my city and in 8th grade I was going to apply to go there. I didn't because it didn't allow illustration. Just fine art, music, and acting. There are more options in colleges.
I don't draw anime/manga. I'm not against it either. I just prefer not to draw it because I don't want to be another apple from the bunch. I'd rather be unique from everyone else and be recognized for something I created.
The first person who created the anime/manga style probably felt unique. It was his/her creation and guess what, other people decided to follow because they love the design.
Try to make your illustrations and art something people will admire and mimic in the future
It's all about what type of art classes you choose too.
I'm sticking to my opinion on anime/manga the way it is. I honestly think it's very overused.
And about "The first person who created the anime/manga style probably felt unique" That guy you're talking about is Ozamu Tezuka, and his style is notoriously influenced by Disney's art style, i wouldn't say that his style is unoriginal, but its not unique either lol.
if you ask me, I think that cartoons take the least amount of work to draw. They have simple designs and sometimes even simpler backgrounds.
Maybe art schools don't like anime because of hentai or ecchi artists. Not all anime artists are like that! If they don't like us drawing nude anime girls then they should look at the nudes they draw.
Anime can portray amazing stories. I bet that not one of those art schools have heard of madoka magica, fate zero, or fullmetal alchemist.
They tell us to think of what a painting means instead of what it looks like, but they don't listen to to themselves. Anime might look like if doesn't take effort to draw, but when you go into the mechanics of it, it more complex than you thought
This honestly should be a fundamental lesson for art teachers to add to their curriculum for students in High school so they can better understand why. Also, so that teacher have the stick up their ass moved a couple of inches down so their not trying to take it out on some inspiring artist (teachers can be butts).
The bottom line why anime/manga styles are not generally accepted at the high school level is because art teachers want to make sure you understand the fundamentals of observational drawing and know "why" things look they way they do so later on you can break it down for your own work. Once you have a solid grasp of that, applying what you learned to your work will show drastic improvements, it certainly did for me (granted I don't have any current work on my page that exemplifies that).
You can still have down right amazing skills as a manga artist, but cultures outside of Japan do not have the same approach due to different things being exposed in every day culture. In the USA and Europe, many of the "greats" have had a major influence on the structure of artistic skill development, and because of this, having a foreign style influence kids at an early age may make it difficult for teachers to teach kids the "fundamentals". Though even in Japan, as far as I have heard and read about, art classes are not taught with a manga style. Rather, they use the same fundamental observational drawing approach.
The reason paint splatter nonsense is even a thing is because it emulates more modern/contemporary works that you would see in an art gallery and are celebrated beyond belief because they are fine arts. Manga and even comic books are commercial arts, and not fine arts. The two have differing purposes and generally have a major rift between the two. A lot of art teachers in high school, and no offense to art teachers in high school, and artist who couldn't make it as fine artist on a grand scale and ended up choosing art education as a second choice (alternatively they wanted to teach from the get go).
I can even see the person who wrote this post changed their style to a more westernized look, and I'm guessing that art college had probably had an influence on you.
In the end, if want to work professionally with a "manga" like style, you need to learn to balance the fundamentals with what you want to do with your own work. The marketability of the manga style is still lacking as the proficiency of the art form is still Japanese in origin and the market has not been opened up too greatly in other parts of the world for Non Native Japanese artist. The only markets I can think of that do appreciate it is comic books and video games. I have personally seen a lot of people who had a desire to use a "manga" style take up a sort of Disney style (my opinion, and legitimately something that happens) after going to art college. Professors try to bash in their personal belief system so that students have more of a chance to make a career, and more than anything is artist getting shoved off to Disney boot camp. I've seen the anime looking bodies with the realistic noses and hyper shading looks getting extremely popular as of recent, overshadowing the desire to use a manga style.
As far as whether or not "manga/anime" style requires less effort, that is incorrect. There isn't much else to say really because everything takes a lot of effort until you get the hang of it. Though there is a super awesome secret that artist learn as they go to college or in high school: YOU CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER! Bottom line is that once you're done with a piece, you need to think "I need to do something better than this now", which forces you to push the envelope on your work. Skill building is a never ending battle!
- Learn the fundamentals and do your own thing, otherwise just become another cog in the works for a major company.
- Art teachers in high school can be incredibly butt hurt about this subject and give kids the wrong information, demonizing anime/manga all together.
- Always push for improvement because being contempt will be your downfall!
- Art is subjective, but still has a foundation, so just have fun!
Hmm this seems like an old question but I still want to gibe my own onion. I am a traditional artist and work in all sorts of media. I personally have not seen sharp tongues pointed towards Anime/Manga styled artist’s. I cannot see why someone would despise a style just because of it’s style. In my onion I believe that most of the negative feedback that Anime/Manga style art gets is just dumb and unreasonable. If one can make art from dots, slash's and trash, then why should anime styled art be any less. "Sophistication, traditional rules, and the use of such is why that is art, you just don't get it" would be a raison used to deny Anime/Manga as a form of art. What I am getting at is that it doesn't matter if its simple or repetitive, anything can be considered art. To frown at Anime/Manga styled art is to frown at all modern art, seems a bit steep but there is a raison for my words. The birth of modern art began a little bit after the Romanticism and Neoclassical movement's with the creation of Impressionism, the transition between realism and impression for a simpler explanation. We owe a lot to these movements because it caused a spark in the art world that questioned art as a whole. One of the original Impressionist went by the name of Edouard Manet. His style of art broke the barriers that allowed all modern art to blossom and become what it is today. One thing that had a great deal of influence on artist like Manet was Japanese art in the form of prints. These Prints made their way into the hands of artist's via travel and trade. Japanese prints have been around for ages and usually depicts a "moment in time” scene or tries to capture a whole story in one frame. These works influenced impressionism with its flat one spaced composition. Works such as Olympia express a flatness that is apparent in both In Japanese prints and Anime/Manga styled art. Another piece of evidence that Japanese art had on the Impressionist Manet is Zola which has a Japanese print of a Wrestler by Utagawa Kuniaki II. Manga is essentially a creation from the direct influence of Japanese prints and is said to originate from a scroll dating to the 12th century, clearly manga isn’t something new. The earliest manga to gain fame are such titles as Osamu Tezuka's Mighty Atom, Astro boy, which helped japan during the hard times of the atomic bomb aftermath. Manga eventually lead to anime, which technically both are the same in style. All forms of art, including digital art, had a moment when it was rejected and not considered an art form or media. If someone can make art with feces or vomit and sale for thousands then why should Anime/Manga styled art not bet valued for its artistic value; and yes, there is feces and vomit art, google it. Artist like Andy Warhol used comic and comic styled art and he is extremely famous with works easily hitting 10 million ducks a “pop.” The last thing to be said is that in order for something to be considered art it needs to follow certain rules. That does not mean that one is imprisoned to certain boundaries because abstract art also follows these rules and can sometimes loks like scribbles at times. In the end, just do what you want, learn from your mistakes, learn more of the modern art world, and never give up because only you can stop yourself from succeeding.
Best of luck, some random Fish o3o
P.S vomit art is a real and weird thing, idk why but yeah here is an example, and yes ppl pay big ducks for it, idk.....
In most drawing classes the teacher is attempting to teach kids realism, perspective, self expression, and originality. This becomes impossible when the students just refuse to listen so that they can grind away at their often uninspired, comfort-zone manga drawings.
This is not to say there aren't talented manga artists - there are. I am just saying that from experience most of them are not motivated to learn properly and never do.
And then they get upset when the teacher isn't impressed with their mediocre work.