Hi guys! I need your help!
I recently enrolled into uni to study digital art and design and I was faced with this big fat stigma against manga-style arts. I've decided to write an article about it for my course's blog and I WANT YOUR OPINIONS.
Because me, I just don't get why is it that Western cartoon style is acceptable and anime/manga style isn't. And why art tutors say things like "Oh, we'll have to beat it [anime] out of you, then" to students who admit they like anime/manga.
Why black splatters on white paper have a profound meaning while a complex illustration is dismissed as a piece of crap, non-art, just because it is drawn in manga style?
What the heck happened to the freedom of expression, anyway?
I knew most art schools are not in love with anime/manga style, but I just honestly wasn't expecting such open, well, hostility, for the lack of a better word. And not just amongst the staff, but a big part of the student body as well. It just makes me sad. But that's beside the point.
The most common misconception seems to be that people who draw in anime/manga style are shit artists otherwise, that drawing in anime/manga style is as indication of lack of skill.
Thus the question: Do you think drawing in manga style requires less effort than drawing in other styles?
Also, if you have any experiences of people dissing anime/manga as a form of art in general, please do share. If you remember even approximately what somebody said about it, please quote.
Thank you for your help. : )
- Mood: Frustrated
- Listening to: rain
- Reading: Html4 for Dummies
- Eating: chocolate
I once had a girl, one who had a more cartoon-ish style, tell me that her art style is more unique than mine because I drew anime, and that it wasn't art. She claimed I just copied and spent no time on developing a style, when I could probably find her "style" used by other, more advanced artists on Google. I got a real kick out of that one. Why do people think that, just because a general style is popular, that everything within it is unoriginal and not art?
I am currently going to an art high school, and only a small few (including me) have a style categorized as manga. Luckily, I've only been told that I had to branch from anime once by my teacher, but that doesn't excuse the subtle-yet-obvious dislike of the style by all of my teachers. I understand that, as artists, we have to venture into the unknown like hobbits and try out new things, but that doesn't mean shaping us like clay into something general. Everything is overused. That's no reason to hate manga. Sure, make one experiment, but don't erase their style.
Wow, we've ventured far off the path, haven't we? Well, back to the question: is manga easier? NO. It took me years to get where I am, and I get so mad when people compare me to the doodle done by the girl two desks over who traces an image on her computer screen onto notebook paper. It's just as hard as drawing realistically, and maybe harder than the cartoon styles we see on television today. And anyway, easy or not, art is a way of expressing oneself, and should not be judged simply by how that artists portrays their thoughts and ideas.
It's just stupid that people don't respect animation as a valid art form. As a fan of anime, manga, comics, and art in general, I am disgusted that they would do that.
But to the other people who think anime/manga is a lack of skill and/or think it requires less effort then they haven't seen other artists then. I've seen SOOO many artists who done beautiful work that requires A LOT of effort and lots of skill! They forget it's not all about picking up a pencil and applying that to a piece of paper. No. Artists in general put in their time and effort to get to where they are at. And there are still other artists who are trying to find their own style!
And it's so cool to see an artist's style! Because every style is different even though it's under this "anime/manga" umbrella. It's kinda like drawing a still life of an apple on a desk. You can tell other people's styles even though it's a freakin' still life of a freakin' apple lol.
(Sorry, wanted to put my tiny 2 cents in here haha)
I should say that since anime is an art style to me (and there are many styles that exist within it), I think that they want people to try something else, instead of something they've become too familiar with.
It might be a good idea to venture into other forms, but damn you to hell if you disagree with this: If that's the type of artist they want to be, SO BE IT.
I heard someone behind my back saying Big eyes people are not a style of art..
SAY THAT TO JAPAN DAMNIT!
the problem with anime when it comes to art classes is not that it is "easy" or ugly [it's not, not necessarily], the problem is that students who are into manga often started off with that [meaning they have no foundation and are "copying" someone else's style] and wanna do JUST that and don't understand how immensely important it is to understand anatomy properly BEFORE you distort it to play with different styles such as manga [or disney, or adventure time, what have you, but manga is a lot more popular so it gets the most attention].
also the difference between manga and western comics is that the later is a lot more realistic.
It's because they want you to develop your own style.
Anime is overused and sure art should be a form of freedom but you also have to be unique.
This is a situation that happens to me all the time:
I meet a new person
Person: I love your drawings! I actually draw too and I love to draw
Me: oh really cool! Can you show me some of your drawings?
Person (opens up her folder/sketchbook of a bunch of Anime Drawings)
Every time I meet someone who says they know how to draw and they do it well, I see lots of anime in their sketchbooks. Sure it's well drawn but does it hurt to be creative with your own style?
There are some people who just draw anime/manga. That's all they do. Ask them to draw something else, most of them won't be able to. If you want to do comic art, you're going to have to learn how to draw in other styles too. That's why in college you get to take special classes from animation,photography, and fashion design to graphic design, illustration and fine art.
There's an art high school in my city and in 8th grade I was going to apply to go there. I didn't because it didn't allow illustration. Just fine art, music, and acting. There are more options in colleges.
I don't draw anime/manga. I'm not against it either. I just prefer not to draw it because I don't want to be another apple from the bunch. I'd rather be unique from everyone else and be recognized for something I created.
The first person who created the anime/manga style probably felt unique. It was his/her creation and guess what, other people decided to follow because they love the design.
Try to make your illustrations and art something people will admire and mimic in the future
It's all about what type of art classes you choose too.
I'm sticking to my opinion on anime/manga the way it is. I honestly think it's very overused.
if you ask me, I think that cartoons take the least amount of work to draw. They have simple designs and sometimes even simpler backgrounds.
Maybe art schools don't like anime because of hentai or ecchi artists. Not all anime artists are like that! If they don't like us drawing nude anime girls then they should look at the nudes they draw.
Anime can portray amazing stories. I bet that not one of those art schools have heard of madoka magica, fate zero, or fullmetal alchemist.
They tell us to think of what a painting means instead of what it looks like, but they don't listen to to themselves. Anime might look like if doesn't take effort to draw, but when you go into the mechanics of it, it more complex than you thought
This honestly should be a fundamental lesson for art teachers to add to their curriculum for students in High school so they can better understand why. Also, so that teacher have the stick up their ass moved a couple of inches down so their not trying to take it out on some inspiring artist (teachers can be butts).
The bottom line why anime/manga styles are not generally accepted at the high school level is because art teachers want to make sure you understand the fundamentals of observational drawing and know "why" things look they way they do so later on you can break it down for your own work. Once you have a solid grasp of that, applying what you learned to your work will show drastic improvements, it certainly did for me (granted I don't have any current work on my page that exemplifies that).
You can still have down right amazing skills as a manga artist, but cultures outside of Japan do not have the same approach due to different things being exposed in every day culture. In the USA and Europe, many of the "greats" have had a major influence on the structure of artistic skill development, and because of this, having a foreign style influence kids at an early age may make it difficult for teachers to teach kids the "fundamentals". Though even in Japan, as far as I have heard and read about, art classes are not taught with a manga style. Rather, they use the same fundamental observational drawing approach.
The reason paint splatter nonsense is even a thing is because it emulates more modern/contemporary works that you would see in an art gallery and are celebrated beyond belief because they are fine arts. Manga and even comic books are commercial arts, and not fine arts. The two have differing purposes and generally have a major rift between the two. A lot of art teachers in high school, and no offense to art teachers in high school, and artist who couldn't make it as fine artist on a grand scale and ended up choosing art education as a second choice (alternatively they wanted to teach from the get go).
I can even see the person who wrote this post changed their style to a more westernized look, and I'm guessing that art college had probably had an influence on you.
In the end, if want to work professionally with a "manga" like style, you need to learn to balance the fundamentals with what you want to do with your own work. The marketability of the manga style is still lacking as the proficiency of the art form is still Japanese in origin and the market has not been opened up too greatly in other parts of the world for Non Native Japanese artist. The only markets I can think of that do appreciate it is comic books and video games. I have personally seen a lot of people who had a desire to use a "manga" style take up a sort of Disney style (my opinion, and legitimately something that happens) after going to art college. Professors try to bash in their personal belief system so that students have more of a chance to make a career, and more than anything is artist getting shoved off to Disney boot camp. I've seen the anime looking bodies with the realistic noses and hyper shading looks getting extremely popular as of recent, overshadowing the desire to use a manga style.
As far as whether or not "manga/anime" style requires less effort, that is incorrect. There isn't much else to say really because everything takes a lot of effort until you get the hang of it. Though there is a super awesome secret that artist learn as they go to college or in high school: YOU CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER! Bottom line is that once you're done with a piece, you need to think "I need to do something better than this now", which forces you to push the envelope on your work. Skill building is a never ending battle!
- Learn the fundamentals and do your own thing, otherwise just become another cog in the works for a major company.
- Art teachers in high school can be incredibly butt hurt about this subject and give kids the wrong information, demonizing anime/manga all together.
- Always push for improvement because being contempt will be your downfall!
- Art is subjective, but still has a foundation, so just have fun!
Hmm this seems like an old question but I still want to gibe my own onion. I am a traditional artist and work in all sorts of media. I personally have not seen sharp tongues pointed towards Anime/Manga styled artist’s. I cannot see why someone would despise a style just because of it’s style. In my onion I believe that most of the negative feedback that Anime/Manga style art gets is just dumb and unreasonable. If one can make art from dots, slash's and trash, then why should anime styled art be any less. "Sophistication, traditional rules, and the use of such is why that is art, you just don't get it" would be a raison used to deny Anime/Manga as a form of art. What I am getting at is that it doesn't matter if its simple or repetitive, anything can be considered art. To frown at Anime/Manga styled art is to frown at all modern art, seems a bit steep but there is a raison for my words. The birth of modern art began a little bit after the Romanticism and Neoclassical movement's with the creation of Impressionism, the transition between realism and impression for a simpler explanation. We owe a lot to these movements because it caused a spark in the art world that questioned art as a whole. One of the original Impressionist went by the name of Edouard Manet. His style of art broke the barriers that allowed all modern art to blossom and become what it is today. One thing that had a great deal of influence on artist like Manet was Japanese art in the form of prints. These Prints made their way into the hands of artist's via travel and trade. Japanese prints have been around for ages and usually depicts a "moment in time” scene or tries to capture a whole story in one frame. These works influenced impressionism with its flat one spaced composition. Works such as Olympia express a flatness that is apparent in both In Japanese prints and Anime/Manga styled art. Another piece of evidence that Japanese art had on the Impressionist Manet is Zola which has a Japanese print of a Wrestler by Utagawa Kuniaki II. Manga is essentially a creation from the direct influence of Japanese prints and is said to originate from a scroll dating to the 12th century, clearly manga isn’t something new. The earliest manga to gain fame are such titles as Osamu Tezuka's Mighty Atom, Astro boy, which helped japan during the hard times of the atomic bomb aftermath. Manga eventually lead to anime, which technically both are the same in style. All forms of art, including digital art, had a moment when it was rejected and not considered an art form or media. If someone can make art with feces or vomit and sale for thousands then why should Anime/Manga styled art not bet valued for its artistic value; and yes, there is feces and vomit art, google it. Artist like Andy Warhol used comic and comic styled art and he is extremely famous with works easily hitting 10 million ducks a “pop.” The last thing to be said is that in order for something to be considered art it needs to follow certain rules. That does not mean that one is imprisoned to certain boundaries because abstract art also follows these rules and can sometimes loks like scribbles at times. In the end, just do what you want, learn from your mistakes, learn more of the modern art world, and never give up because only you can stop yourself from succeeding.
Best of luck, some random Fish o3o
P.S vomit art is a real and weird thing, idk why but yeah here is an example, and yes ppl pay big ducks for it, idk.....
In most drawing classes the teacher is attempting to teach kids realism, perspective, self expression, and originality. This becomes impossible when the students just refuse to listen so that they can grind away at their often uninspired, comfort-zone manga drawings.
This is not to say there aren't talented manga artists - there are. I am just saying that from experience most of them are not motivated to learn properly and never do.
And then they get upset when the teacher isn't impressed with their mediocre work.
The reason teachers hate most anime "art" is because it is repetitive, shows very little self expression and a very limited skill set. Their pictures often consist of big eyes, stupid cartoony grins, bulbous heads, a single front perspective, and plain backgrounds.
One who is starting off with drawing would definitely be repetitive, single front perspective and plain backgrounds, doesn't matter about the style. And yes, it's called manga/anime STYLE not manga/anime ART, because it's a STYLE used by an artist. And because it's a type of STYLE, it varies from artists to artists.
I am not saying anime art is not a form of art, is ugly and etc... I'm just putting out there that a lot of anime artists or students feel like it's the only thing they want and should draw and do not try any other styles, do not study anatomy, and then complain when they're asked to do so in school because "its not my style". Like at least make an effort to try different things and include some anatomical elements into your anime art might actually make it better.
Also, I'm pretty sure if you want to draw anime style, it'd be better to get your name out there for something else then tell them "aye, mangu and animu is where it's at mangs."
i'm very familiar with anime/manga and i like many styles and i like many of them. i know for instance what, say, suzumiya haruhi's style is COMPLETELY different from death note's style. death note is a little bit westernized even, it looks very reasonable and they actually have noses, but the fact is that the vast majority of animes have ridiculously big heads and eyes that take up 90% [big eyes are not always bad though] of it and alien noses, and THAT'S what the teachers are thinking when they have a problem with anime.
the problem with anime when it comes to art classes is not that it is "easy" or ugly [it's not, not necessarily], the problem is that students who are into manga often wanna do JUST that and don't understand how immensely important it is to understand anatomy properly BEFORE you distort it to play with different styles such as manga.
also, a lot of aspiring artists DO copy someone's manga style, usually. sometimes even fucking trace.
also the difference between manga and western comics is that the later is a lot more realistic.
PD sorry for my crappy english I try my best
But who knows it also could have been because I insulted his favorite youtuber. Because that's where his "honest criticism" came up in the first place.
now, art teachers having bias against people who don't do realism is just terrible. i mean their going to school to learn, if they are good at anything at all should be good enough as a proof that they should be in art school.
First off is the portfolio; your portfolio is supposed to prove that you have at least a basic understanding of art and can execute that properly, but it is also there to show that you as an artist have the potential to grow and branch out, even if it means getting out of your comfort zone. A good portfolio has different styles, different mediums, and different subjects. If someone's portfolio consisted of a bunch of anime (which usually means theres a person/animal/entity in it,) don't you think that the artist would be seen as overly reserved and unwilling to take risks with their art? Same goes with any other style, but it is incredibly prominent in the anime fandom, especially since it's such a general and widespread style.
Second, art school breaks you down and builds you back up. Coming into my art school with drawing 1, I spent months drawing boxes. Then those boxes turned into planes for landscapes, and then eventually those planes became planes of the face. I have a style, yes, but I had to give all of it up for the sake of learning, and one thing I've noticed with the students who draw anime is that they either 1: Refuse to let go of their style, and come portrait season the realistic standard is found nowhere in their portraits or they have great difficulty getting the face/proportions down properly or 2: Lose their anime style incredibly quickly.
And honestly, think further ahead to getting a job. If you only want to draw anime; what can you do with that? Illustrators more often than not have to be a jack of all trades, or else their clientele will decrease. Same with graphic design, concept artists, etc. Limiting yourself is a bad move.
Looks like it's misconception that leads to it eh?
On the first part, one's portfolio before entering art schools usually are only drawn by said person during their free time and not basic studies. Of course, there are people who will draw those during their free time if they are really serious in getting down their basics right. But based on your comment [ If someone's portfolio consisted of a bunch of anime (which usually means theres a person/animal/entity in it,) don't you think that the artist would be seen as overly reserved and unwilling to take risks with their art? Same goes with any other style, but it is incredibly prominent in the anime fandom, especially since it's such a general and widespread style. ] It seems to be, in some cases, true, but going back to my first sentence, might be because said person drew them as a hobby and not a learning session.
Second part, on students who draws in manga/anime styles:
1. Refuse to let go of their style - This I find is actually a positive attitude, it shows individualism because they want to retain their style (Although in some cases they just copied the style based on which manga/anime they read/watch, in this case, doesn't really count as their own style), since manga style in general, are simplified hair, faces and enlarged heads, they can still vary from artist to artist. On the part of realistic session portrait session, I can't really comment on this, because drawing in manga/anime style doesn't really mean you can't draw "realistic" face or proportions. Either they are refusing to draw "realistic" in the session or they for some reason haven't learnt the basics in the earlier courses
2. Bad artist attitude for giving up something that makes an individual artist individual
Some might be thinking of getting jobs as a mangaka and not illustrators, but getting into art schools to perfect their basics and are unamused with the reception they are getting about their styles.
Indeed, not taking risks is a hindrance for a learning artist.
And I don't necessarily think that kids should throw all of that out either! Drawing for fun is really great and very therapeutic, espeeeeeecially when you're in art school, but while I love drawing furry characters, I know well enough that it's generally unprofessional and I can not make a proper career out of it. Same with anime, there's not a very high demand for anime style specific drawings in the US and European countries (which are the schools I'm specifically addressing), and Asian companies in need of art will probably stick to their own country for simplicity's sake, what with language barriers, currency conversion, time difference and what have you.
There's a sort of duality that you come to develop between personal and work art, and it's not a bad thing, since the more you explore the mediums, the more you find niches that you like, and you come to develop more methods of working, which you can then introduce to your personal art (god knows all of the shit from completely unrelated classes I've used in my personal art at this point)
The kids who refuse to let go of their style is problematic because at the center of it, they are paying to start from the basics and build themselves back up foundationally, and if they don't want to let their old style go (at least temporarily) in the classroom setting, they are wasting the professor's and everyone else's time. If they can draw realistically, that's good and that's what they should be showing off since it's the basic stuff you want. Once you have a firm grasp of the basics, you come to understand how you can bend those basics and break the rules in an aesthetically pleasing way to suit your needs. A fresh out of high school artist more often than not does not have this firm grasp yet, and needs to let go of their original style so they can grasp the finer points of the basics. Then, if they really choose so, they can pick up their old style, but most of the time looking back before the foundations your art looks pretty cringeworthy to you. Even my entry level portfolio, my best work from when I was entering art school, is really groanworthy, and many students I go to school with feel the same about theirs.
And I hate saying this since I don't want to be a dreamwrecker, but realistically speaking, the possibility of becoming a mangaka is slim to none for Americans and Europeans, and the workload is incredibly strenuous (about 2 hours of sleep a night, maybe one hour breaks a day, deadlines are insane, man) and like it or not, Japan kinda tends to be xenophobic. I'm by NO means saying that kids should not try, since there is always a possibility, but they should definitely have a plan B in case things have a difficult start up or the job is too difficult after they get it. And even then, a mangaka is a Sequential artist, so an illustration or sequential art major would be what you'd go for regardless.
Jesus, I wrote a wall of text. Sorry 'bout that.
Proportions, positions, Page Layout, time, effort, and skill all come into this.
The more advanced I got at manga, the more I learned that the older generations or the people otherwise known as adults, do not believe its art.
But in all honesty, it's an Art Style created by the Japanese. Pokemon and Sailor Moon were made by the Japanese, but adults don't really think of those two shows as anime, but more like a cartoon like scooby doo.
Something the adults don't tend to realize is that it hurts the students when they're told anime is not art.
I'm making a manga already, with my friend Abee. I have already come up with my own art style, and even though I'm still in highschool, I've already figured out my dreams and goals.
Be an awesome Mangaka if I can't become a singer, or be both. Lastly I'd also take in homeless pets and find them good homes.
First, manga is not a style its a format.
There are a few formats minimalistic, highly renederd, cartoon, manga....
Drawing in a specific format means your art will follow a specific trait.
It could be the way you draw faces, bodies and/or your general structure.
Second. The "style" is banned not for being easy. No format is easy, I know cuz I draw in all the formats, including manga. The reason people treat that way is for it taking over art the way 3D animation is taking over 2D that is why most of the artist draw it because most artits that are in the internet watched or read anime/manga therefire its very popular its there isnt much competition these days.
But no, its not easy.
It has the same dificluties as drawing in any other fromats structure, anatomy, form and appeal.
The easiest format will always be minimalistic little to no hair dots for eyes... generally not much detail, its even more hated in art than manga but even that format isnt easy.
I may be mistaken on some terms, but I assure you that I believe every single word to the letter.
the highest cuz you they can do party tricks but in real creativity liberty of individuals self freedome they fall like insects and die in sand
in short people dont make art just soo you wold like what they make they make art for freedom of expression and liberty and stand for what they believe thats art
anime is the total or the most uncreative art form because it dictates what you make what you feel
and how to make what real liberty is their if you make the same things over and over
what art is it if you just copy it isnt art its bussiness